Update on the Rogue PVP thing

It’s funny how experiences can differ from day to day.

Yesterday also marked an absolute low in regards to Rogue PVP ninjaahood in random BGs. I believe a lot has to do with BG in question. For some strange reason, I always ended up in the new Battlegrounds, Silvershard Mines (SvM) and Temple of Kotmogu (ToK).

ToK is kinda ok. It’s fast, people tend to group up so I received lots of heals, and because of this I was able to harras a lot of key opponent players. It is however way to spammy for my taste.

SvM however is goddamn awful. Again, close quarters combat, everything closely together. A nightmare for Rogues. Forget about being a stealthy ninja, everybody and their mother is using AOE attacks all over the place, getting you out of stealth all the time. Forget about jumping people sneaky style, you are always faces multiple opponents. Not a good place for Rogues!

And, yesterday also marked my first day of Warrior hating. There was one Warrior present in the SVM, and he had a pocket healer, a Paladin. He was dominating the place. Attack the Warrior, and he just keeps getting healed by the pocket healer. Attack the healer, and the Warrior stuns / CCs you. Use CC yourself and see it fall of in a second. Oh yeah, add to that the fact that the Warrior kept killing you in a heartbeat … yeah Blizzard is in a happy place about Warrior burst damage.

I still think Rogue does okay in random Battlegrounds, and I also realize I haven’t got the gear yet to make a decent final conclusion about it.

The amount of complaining on various forums doesn’t make me happy though. I don’t have any plans to enter Arena PVP (yet), so I don’t have to worry about that yet.

But I do get where most people (Rogues) that are complaining are coming from. We do have a serious problem with mobility and survival outside our cool downs, which are somewhat lacking.

I also mentioned I switched to Assassination for PVE purposes, and boy does that have energy issues! OMG. Half the time I’m just waiting for my energy to come back up so I can refresh Rupture or Slice ‘n Dice (Envenom).

To close, I’ll leave you with this video, featuring Swifty (Warrior) and Mercader (Rogue) in a 2v2 Arena fight. The video shows Mercator against a resto Druid for about 10 minutes …

Besides the bullshit discussion whether Mercator played alright or not, I ask you this. Why is it OK for a healer to just shrug of a DPS’ing player like he ain’t ever there? Or … why is it OK for a healer to shrug of a Rogue like he ain’t even there?

Would the fight have been the same if Swifty had been up against the Druid? If a Warrior had been up against a Resto Druid? I don’t think so. A Warrior would have wtf-pwnd that Night Elf Resto Druid back into the fairy woods it came from …


6 thoughts on “Update on the Rogue PVP thing

  1. I remember watching Mercader take on 5 warriors (including prot-phase Swifty) in a row in a video taken during Cata. So it isn’t like he can’t play.

    In a land where burst is king, rogues effectively have none.

    • Yep I remember something similar.

      That’s what you read a lot on the Blizzard forums these days unfortunately. The end of ‘Cataclysm’ and Rogues being OP.

      Some Rogues (read: the minority) were OP by the end of Cataclysm, mainly because of the legendary daggers and the easy flow of epix. The majority of Rogue players didn’t have that set, because it wasn’t available to them.

      It’s just not cool to have to wait for the end of an expansion cycle to be viable or OP. Hell, I bet most Rogues would trade being OP at the end of an expansion to being balanced right now in a heartbeat.

      I can’t find the quote anymore, but I remember Ghostcrawler saying somewhere that it was their intent to move away from burst cool down play because it made an uninteresting game play experience.

      What happened? Because PVP right now is all about burst cool down play.

      • The biggest problem with rogues was the ridiculous random proc damage from the vial of shadows, available to pretty much anyone with enough luck or someone to queue with, combined with the relatively easily acquired base pickpocket daggers putting them ahead of other players on the weapons damage curve. They started DS in a good position and it was never forgotten.

        DS also lasted a hell of a long time as a tier, and after progressive nerfs the only real obstacle to full legendaries – time – was overcome. No, legendaries weren’t as common as rogue-haters will say, but they weren’t uncommon either.

        As for burst becoming king… when everyone has blanket damage reduction and self-healing, the best way to score a kill is to overwhelm the healing on the target. And as long as the designers are producing encounters that require raid teams to become minature gods, they’ll keep giving strong CDs to every class. Hell, on some fights classes with no burst are an active detriment – remember boomkins and ‘locks QQing about Spine?

        • Didn’t the vial get nerfed? As in reduced damage but more procs to keep the burst out of PVP? I never really played my Rogue much in Cataclysm, other than a herb / transmuter.

          The only char I played PVP with in Cata was my Hunter, and Rogues never gave me much problems, at least the non legendary wielders :-).

          It will be interesting to see if Blizzard will decide to make sure some of the currently unbalanced classes, lets call them that, will be toned down a bit.

          I’d love to see some Rogue love, but I don’t believe that will happen honestly. Balancing Rogues is tremendously hard, and well … when you’re balancing for PVE & PVP (random bg, rated bg & arena), you’re up to a monumental task.

          • The Vial was rebalanced… weeks after it had already made PvP the rogjues’ kingdom. With rogues’ scaling off haste giving them massive energy regen, they had less to worry about in terms of buildup. Yes, rogues would have been effective without the legendaries and the vial, but those early leg-ups were never forgiven.

            I PvP’d mostly on my paladin. Rogues didn’t have much to offer against plate. Suspect Shadow Blades will have altered the playing field there a bit.

            • Thb, Rogues still have little to offer against a plate wearing monster. I tend to avoid Warriors and Paladins in Bgs at all. Only when it’s absolutely necessary like peeling one of a healer I will engage.

              Shadow Blades is nice, but lets be honest it’s a 3m cooldown. I can relate to Reckful leaving his Rogue due to the long cooldown abilities. I’m not a fan of that either.

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